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Long AC Diversion To YVR Due Unruly Passengers
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:29 | Сообщение # 1 |
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| http://www.therecord.com/news....-around
AC31, 77W on Monday en route from YYZ to PEK, about 350 nm from the North Pole, when it diverted to YVR due two drunk and unruly passengers, both employees of Research in Motion, maker of the BlackBerry. Passengers had to be restrained and handcuffed to their seats. Doesn't say whether they were in J or Y class.
The crew orginally requested to divert to ANC but changed their mind and went to YVR, landing almost 11 hours and 5,000 miles after leaving YYZ. The other 312 passengers had to be put up in hotels overnight before continuing their trip to PEK, arriving 18 hours late. The two passengers responsible spent the night in jail and were given one-year suspended sentences and probation and have been ordered to pay over $70,000 restitution to AC. I suppose they may also be looking for new jobs.
Following from Transport Canada daily incident summary:
The Air Canada Boeing 777-333ER, operating as ACA031 IFR Toronto (CYYZ) to Beijing (ZBAA), was at 34,000 feet at 84 00 N 136 00 W, and requested clearance to Anchorage, AK, USA (PANC) due to an unruly passenger. Clearance was provided as requested.
UPDATE from FAA Operations: Anchorage, AK security event . ACA31 experienced an unruly passenger. The passenger was restrained and the aircraft was planning to divert to Anchorage. The aircraft diverted instead to Vancouver with ETA of 0600z (2200PST). ACA31 landed in Vancouver Runway 08R without further incident at 0611z (2211PST).
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:30 | Сообщение # 2 |
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| just posted this, 2 minutes after Viscount724 so my thread should be deleted.
I would just like to add that it apparently took the entire flight crew to subdue the two men and Research in Motion has suspended the employees but not fired them yet pending additional information. I'm happy that the men have been fined in this case, there is often a lot of talk on here about charging or fining people that cause such diversions and in his case I think they completely deserved it.
Link and video news report on the story from CTV News:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews....-111201
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:30 | Сообщение # 3 |
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| I've heard from other sources that it was in J, and both of these men held Elite Top Tier status with AC.
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:30 | Сообщение # 4 |
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| There are a bunch of weird things about this story.
1) Why is their employer important? When that story about the guy who punched the B6 fa the other day came out, was he referred to as a "drunk and unruly Denny's employee"? And I don't remember people saying "he should be fired!" in addition to being arrested. Yet in every story I've seen about this online, the fact that these guys are RIM employees is headline material. I just can't figure out why. Are RIM employees supposed to be somehow immune from acting like idiots?
2) What on Earth really happened here? Nobody seems to be saying. I find it hard to understand how two guys who supposedly had Elite Top Tier status would suddenly go and screw things up so royally for themselves and everyone else for no good reason. Something had to set them off. I'm not saying there's much of anything that could excuse this behavior, but I am just curious what they could have possibly been thinking. People who have high levels of status generally want to keep it. There's an important part of this story that's not being told, and that's weird too.
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:31 | Сообщение # 5 |
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| One question needs to be asked and I know I'm most likly going to get burnt for this, but how involved where the FAs in this incident, did the passengers get fully drunk on the flight or were they already drunk while boarding in YYZ? I'm not excusing the offending passengers or giving an excuse but if the pax got drunk on the flight then maybe the FAs should face some action from AC because isn't it the crews job to ensure the safety of all pax? Ensuring the safety of all pax should surly also involve preventing them from getting drunk on the flight as FAs have a right to refuse
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:31 | Сообщение # 6 |
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| It sounds like they may have been on a business trip, and/or may have been relatively high up on the totem pole.
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:32 | Сообщение # 7 |
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| I'm curious: What device/criteria/procedure do you think F/A's possess to determine when a passengers consuming alcohol on board are going to cross the threshold into being drunken jackasses?
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| @737@ | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:32 | Сообщение # 8 |
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| 1. In J, pax may be served by any of the F/As at different times - you'd need to keep a chart in the galley for each pax and estimate their respective tolerance to alcohol; and
2. There's a self-serve bar on AC's 777s.
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| @737@ | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:33 | Сообщение # 9 |
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| Quote (cassini-m) It sounds like they may have been on a business trip, and/or may have been relatively high up on the totem pole.
Is that just pure speculation or do you have a source?
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:33 | Сообщение # 10 |
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| ...and no doubt these guys were helping themselves to the self-serve bar at the Maple Leaf lounge before departure.
I think it's time Air Canada looks at the idea of self-service alcohol.
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| Robert | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:33 | Сообщение # 11 |
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| I'd say correct, although noting as per another comment that it might be that several FAs were serving, so total consumption was not tracked. But it's the same in a bar, staff need to be mindful of not over-serving. In fact in several jurisdictions in Canada and the USA there are mandatory courses for bar staff regarding thi stopic.
I have seen pax cut off in flight. Some go quietly, some are outraged. One in particular I remember was a former Tory canibet minister in the 1980s who was cutoff last leg of a YOW-YWG-YYC Christmas flight. When he was cut off he was sitting on the armrest of his aisle seat with his cowboy boots resting on the seat across the aisle. Took umbrage at being told to sit down.
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| Robert | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:33 | Сообщение # 12 |
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| Self-serve bars are a growing trend in F/J/Y+ all over the world. Less of a need for an additional FA or two on a long-haul.
Long diversion, though.
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| IROman | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:34 | Сообщение # 13 |
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| When you are travelling on business, you are a representative of your company at all times. So it is relevant.
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:34 | Сообщение # 14 |
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| These men were not low-level employees within the RIM organization, and I understand that they were on a business-related trip.
RIM is a company that holds itself in very high esteem. Securing a job there is no easy task since they only hire the best-of-the-best. The fact that two management types from one of Canada's most recognizable corporations got charged due to being sloshed on a trans-pacific flight is highly damaging to the company's image, especially in an industry where reputation plays a critical role.
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| IROman | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:34 | Сообщение # 15 |
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| Quite. Several times I've had the privilege of attending conferences overseas, and I also served on a committee at the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna. Not only was I representing my employer, I was representing my country. And I believe I acted in an appropriate manner.
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:34 | Сообщение # 16 |
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| I am not saying I disagree with these comments, but I see this alarming trend in the way we view society.
No longer are we at fault for our own actions. It's always someone else's fault. That thousands of F and J passengers travel every day, and those aircraft make it safely to their destinations is a good indicator that most people are capable of acting like adults, and not High School kids seeing "free" liquor with zest!
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| IROman | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:35 | Сообщение # 17 |
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| Seems there's more to this story!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011....c=tha26
The article mentions that Air Canada made this decision to divert because they were worried about the Chinese impounding the plane. Why would that have happened?
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:35 | Сообщение # 18 |
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| Good points.
In the USA, alcoholism is a protected disability under ADA
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:35 | Сообщение # 19 |
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| Including Ontario. Having worked as a barttender (a long time ago, however) I was required to take the training, and told that patrons who appear intoxicated should not be served... in fact I think that the Liquor Control Act says that it is illegal as well. While it was impossible to keep track of drinks served, we were actually expected to enforce that rule, and we did.
That was a one-day course to a student bartender... I am sure FA's are trained to be at least that vigilant, given all that is at stake and all that they are expected to do.
Trouble is, people hold their liquor differently, and some can drink a huge amonut before they show it...
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:36 | Сообщение # 20 |
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| Haha - like the last paragraph in the New York Times article:
"Incidentally, it appears that none of the 312 other people aboard the Air Canada flight, which was ultimately delayed by 18 hours, pulled out a BlackBerry, or any other smartphone for that matter, to post a message about the episode. "
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:36 | Сообщение # 21 |
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| People plead guilty for various reasons and often it's not because the facts, as construed by authorities, are accurate or that the person actually what he or she is alleged to have done.
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:36 | Сообщение # 22 |
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| Broad authority to seize, for trial, property on which an offense occurred? No idea really.
The NY Times article says the men were eventually separated so does sound like they were fighting between themselves.
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:37 | Сообщение # 23 |
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| I agree with your premise that we represent our employers, but cases like this, assigning 'guilt by association' is a step too far. No worthy editor who published the name of the employer failed to consider the obvious negative light in which the company will be regarded as a result of this story. The company is having a hard enough time at present, and this firm kick while on their knees is the last thing they needed. Sadly, too often people tend to judge many by the actions of a few.
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| bar_rodoy | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:37 | Сообщение # 24 |
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| Great point. Although the very short time between incident & justice (added to the fact they were levied a not inconsequential fine) indicates that finally, some personal accountability was imposed. These guys are out $70K, are banned from travel on the airline, will likely lose their jobs and having their full names plastered in the media, will probably have great difficulty finding new ones.
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| cassini-m | Дата: Среда, 07.12.2011, 16:37 | Сообщение # 25 |
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| The article does not say that? Yes, it does. And I said it sounds, emphasis on sounds, like they were ... as in to convey or make the impression that. It's a fairly subjective observation and I'll stand by my opinion; you can continue to pontificate with your silly "indefensible leap in logic" remarks.
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